Examples

[indri]

My life is extremely hectic at the moment and I'm still reviewing the comments that people made on Descent. Two points raised concerned the emotionally distancing effect of the voice and tone used in the piece, and the lack of drama in the fight scenes.

So I'd be very grateful if people on my Flist would link to stories (fanfic or commercial fic) which

are extremely emotionally affecting (especially if it's not shipperfic), and/or

have exciting fight scenes.

I'll study them and see how I can improve.

My thanks again to everyone who took part in the Concritathon and for peasant_ for running it.

Comments

[malkingrey.livejournal.com]

Just off the top of my head:

For intense but well-written emotion, I'd go for Herself's Where They Have to Take You In. Outside of fanfic . . um, the climax of Henry James' "The Beast in the Jungle" always gets me, despite the fact that James wrote some of the most maddening prose around, and Dorothy Dunnett's historical novels are really good at putting the emotional screws to characters and readers alike.

Good fight scenes . . . let's see. There's Dunnett again; there's either Njal's Saga or Egil's Saga in a good translation; there's Dumas' Three Musketeers, ditto; there's George Macdonald Fraser's Flashman novels.

[indri]

Thank you. I started Herself's fic a while back when it was still a WIP but lost track (as I do with WIPs). The SO has some Dunnetts around somewhere and I see that the James is easily available online (we don't seem to have any of his short stories in print at home).

Dumas! Of course! We don't have the Sagas, but after our recent trip around Scandinavia, I'd say we'd be keen.

[shapinglight]

I don't know if battle scenes are the same as fight scenes. If so, I recommend the Sharpe novels by Bernard Cornwell.

I actually didn't find Descent emotionally distancing.

[indri]

Batlle scenes are good too. I know there are many Sharpe novels at the local library, so I'll give them a go, thank you.

[shapinglight]

I find fight scenes very hard to write too, which is why I often wimp out and sort of right around them instead.

Of course, if one describes them in detail (as I once saw in one of the appalling 'official' BtVS books) it can be very boring indeed.

[azdak.livejournal.com]

Funnily enough, I recommended the "Siege of the Round House" chapter from Stevenson's Kidnapped to estepheia as a brilliant example of a fight scene shortly before the Concritathon started. It's at http://www.enotes.com/kidnapped-text/73065. I thought of it because I adore Kidnapped and I once read something by Graham Greene fulsomely praising the battle of the round house for the economy and immediacy with which it describes a fairly complicated fight from a single point of view.

I'm not sure what to make of the "emotionally distancing" comments. I do think that using the present tense always brings the risk of having a distancing effect, simply because it's not the conventional tense for narrative. That makes the reader more aware of how the story is being told rather than what is being told, simply because it isn't the expected tense. On the other hand, I think one of the the things that makes Descent powerful is the rather dry narrative tone - personally, I prefer a style that arouses emotions in the reader rather than wallowing in the emotions of the character (does this make sense? I mean that having Spike rolling around in angst would actually affect me, as a reader, less than *knowing* he's going through terrible things without having my nose rubbed in how he must feel about that). I do think that this is very much a matter of individual preference, because there's so much fic out there that people gobble up which I simply can't bear because there's so much emotional wallowing going on - if you like characters to wallow, then you'll think of "distance" as a disadvantage, if you think less is more when it comes to emotions, then you'll like "distance".

[indri]

Thanks for the Kidnapped rec.

I prefer a style that arouses emotions in the reader rather than wallowing in the emotions of the character

Agreed. I can't think of any good terms for the extremes on this axis -- "dry" and "gushy" perhaps? Any given work has a range along this axis. And while I think girlguidejones and I probably have differing tastes here, estepheia's comments suggest to me that I could have included sections that sat a tad closer towards gushy (while still being generally dry) to make a greater impact.

Now, the examples I can think of for "dry" but powerful texts include Chekhov's short stories, whereas when I think of "gushy", I think of terrible hacks like Gaston Leroux. What I'd like to do is to look at good gushy texts so I can either dismiss them entirely as just not to my taste (like licorice) or learn how to adapt some of the techniques to spice up what I already do (aniseed powder).

Having said that, I did try out a completely different tone for Hotel Lavear as an antidote to my usual sparseness but it's something I'd like to experiment with further.

My Dru story, should I finish it, will be stylistically like Descent. I can't think of it any other way. But after that, I'd like to try quite different approaches to make sure I don't get stuck in a rut. I'm quite wedded to third person limited perspective, for example, so I'm considering a fling with multiple third or some sort of omniscient. (I did a lot of first person before started publishing fanfic so I don't feel a need to revisit that yet.) If I were completely mad, I'd try my hand at full-on shipperfic but I suspect any such attempt would sound like parody. I just didn't read any romance fiction as a kid.

[azdak.livejournal.com]

Now, the examples I can think of for "dry" but powerful texts include Chekhov's short stories

Oh yes! Or Kazuo Ishiguro, where you carry a terrible pain around in your chest for days after reading the book, and yet the narrator never even says explicitly "It hurt".

What I'd like to do is to look at good gushy texts

I'm afraid I can't help at all there. I'm allergic to gushy texts. Seriously - I just can't bear slush, it'll turn me off a story faster than anything else.

Having said that, I did try out a completely different tone for Hotel Lavear as an antidote to my usual sparseness

Hmmm. I wouldn't call the tone "completely different" - Carlos, for all his ornateness of speech, is very circumspect about his feelings, either packing them in conventional formulations or else discreetly passing over them. He talks about passion, but not about how passion feels (which I suppose is why the frame narrator is necessary, so that we see Carlos from an outside perspective that tells us things Carlos himself would never say).

I'd like to try quite different approaches to make sure I don't get stuck in a rut.

That's fair enough, just so long as you don't decide to try writing crap!fic ;-) I mean, you wouldn't suggest to Chekhov or Ishiguro that they might try their hand at something a little more gushy, now would you?

[indri]

Carlos, for all his ornateness of speech, is very circumspect about his feelings

You know, that hadn't occurred to me at all, so thank you very much for that observation. Looks like I can't manage "gushy" even when I try.

He talks about passion, but not about how passion feels

See, I'm not sure I know how it feels. Usually emotions hit me almost in retrospect: I'm doing this so I must have feel like this. So that follows through in my writing.

just so long as you don't decide to try writing crap!fic

No fear there :)

There are days when I wish I could learn to write immensly popular shipperfic which would garner me infinite feedback and many awards. (Which is not crap!fic but another very specialised skill. There are shipperfic writers whom I very much admire.) But I think if I tried it would sound like a dreadful parody.

you wouldn't suggest to Chekhov or Ishiguro that they might try their hand at something a little more gushy

Well no, but only because they already make me burst into tears, on cue, every time...

[lakrids404.livejournal.com]

A question about something completely different, by did you meet with Robin Hobb and if so do you want to tell about it?

[indri]

I met her a couple of times, once in Melbourne and once in Glasgow. I'll try to remember to write about it when I have time!