Concritathon

[indri]

Text pinched from peasant_ and deadsoul820.

This is my post for peasant_'s Concritathon. Anyone who wants to give me public concrit for Descent is very welcome to do so here. Anyone who would rather send the concrit privately, my address is archaeoindri@yahoo.com.

According to the rules of the concritathon:

Concrit is Constructive Criticism. This means that it must point out at least one, preferably more, flaws in the story as well as at least one, preferably more, good points in the story. It must also be written so as to inform the author of your opinion without hurting their feelings.

Ta.

Comments

Concritathon feedback!

[girlguidejones.livejournal.com]

Hi there! I've organized my feedback in sections with different headers, with a summary section at the end, because that's how it was easiest for me to keep organized. (Hopefully it seems to be to you as well. Heh.) There will be several posts here, due to LJ limitations. I can send a full copy to your email if you think it would be helpful, just let me know!
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Grammar

"He finds an unoccupied holiday shack -- built low, thatched roof -- and jemmies open its sole window."
I think this should be "jimmies".

Let me preface this comment with a statement that this is certainly not an error of any sort.
"...soon the stench of effluent becomes overpowering..."

This is probably a perception unique to me because I'm weird about word association, and I'm certain that you wouldn't need to have a concern with other readers. But for some reason, I initially perceived "effluent" as "effulgent" because of the notoriety and strong association the word has with Spike. Obviously the word was contextually wrong, and I re-read quickly and saw my error, but I thought it interesting enough to mention. If for some reason you think others might make the same stumble (I doubt it) you could probably use "effluvium" with no loss.

There were a couple of "Brit-isms" that I, as a yank, had to discern via context. I never did quite get what an antimaccassar was, but I gathered it was some sort of linen or sheet, and that was quite sufficient for the story's purpose. Personally, I have no problem with that, and think that it adds to the story, so yay. Others may not, however. But, who cares?

Overall structure comments

Runs more like a play-by-play than prose. Very structured, very clear, easily visualized, but I feel little emotional involvement with the story while reading. I felt almost as if we were watching a news broadcast or a documentary of "What happened in Africa" rather than being involved and swept up in Spike's story. Given the very real turmoil Spike clearly experienced due to his re-souling, this almost-objective telling of his story was unusual. I don't think it worked for me personally, but other readers might enjoy a more atypical telling of his experiences.

Intriguing sections

"What would she have done with her life had she had one? Got married and knocked-up? Put letters in the penny post, warning miners not to work tomorrow and sailors not to put to sea the day after next? Drusilla as kindly seer."

I like Spike's thoughts of a human Drusilla. This is also one of the few sections where I felt what Spike felt, rather than felt like I was reading a report of Spike's actions.

"Forget about the soul, Spike. Concentrate on what you're good at -- whenever you find out what that is."

I found this line intriguing, because as it happens, it turns out to be genuinely good advice. What I never did decide is whether the Angelus-spectre sincerely meant it to be, or whether it was intended as hurtful, and in truth was something else altogether. At first this bugged me, and I read and re-read the context trying to decide. Finally I decided that I liked not knowing the intent of the spectre when it was said. A little mystery is good.

Re: Concritathon feedback!

[girlguidejones.livejournal.com]

Regarding various action sequences

Enjoyed the first fight scene with the vamps and the "elder". Very clear and easily pictured; especially the scene with the train. I could almost picture it as part of an actual episode, with neat-O choreography as Spike thinks on his feet and tricks the pursuers into the vaporizing sunlight.

General plot commentary

The German woman that Spike meets at the bar...either she is superfluous, or I totally missed what her significance was. To me, she seemed jammed in there with no real reason behind her existence. The story could have proceeded just as well with Spike finding his own place to stay, especially given how she departs without incident or further explanation later. Why? Did I miss something important about her?

There are several instances where Spike encounters humans -often bleeding- but even though he hasn't eaten there is little to no mention of his hunger other than the pig incident until near the end with the hotel keeper crushed by the chest. No temptation to drink from the dead or dying, no stomach rumblings- not even a self-disgust at thoughts of their blood or the hunger it causes. Either the reader has to believe that Spike isn't hungry -he hasn't eaten since the first day out of the cave, and his body is struggling for fuel to heal itself- or has to believe that it isn't integral enough for the storyteller to comment on. Neither seemed believable to me.

The section about the biker and the lake seemed a little contrived to me. For one, I'm not really sure why Spike is obsessed with following the vamp biker. It's stated that he'll bring more pursuers, but I felt like Spike would have been better served just putting miles between himself and the biker. After all, it's not as though it's a secret that he's *in* the country. Cloven-hoof guy would still have to find him. And I am also not sure why Spike would drive the car into the lake. The story seems clear that the biker is unsuspecting of Spike being in the car. It's just an anonymous Japanese car. Why not just force him into the lake (as he did) and stay on shore and wait for a drenched vamp to come crawling out and meet him with a stake? If the vamp is really rushing to report Spike's presence, he's gotta come out of the lake sometime, and Spike could easily run down a waterlogged vamp in the car.

Finding a hat-selling demon in a random sewer-tunnel also seemed a stretch to me.

Interesting cameo apparitions: Walsh, the Coal Bin Girl, Ford...

I am a bit confuzzled by the phone conversation between Spike and Dawn (unless he totally imagined it and I didn't get that, in which case ignore this part of my commentary). We know that Buffy took Dawn to Spike's while he was in Africa in hopes of leaving her in his protection. This was a big thing with her friends (understandably). But we hear Dawn putting the hate on Spike over the phone, saying "she knew". If that were true, then Feisty Dawn would never have stood for the trip to Spike's. The case could be made that Dawn went to Spikes, then found out the truth, and *then* Spike called afterward, but the time line seems a little convoluted in my head. Maybe that's just my head, and no one else's.

Other than that tiny niggle, the entire story fits perfectly into show canon, explaining how Spike physically got "out of Africa" and how he came to be so ensorcelled by FirstBuffy. Well done!

Favorite scenes

I really like the parts with Angelus, especially the line where he tells Spike "But she loved me". I could feel that punch in the gut.

"He breaks a branch from a nearby tree and plunges it into the biker's heart. The dust becomes mud on his boots and is washed away in the rain."

Wonderful imagery here- really liked the dust becoming mud.

"There's something wrong with me," he tells her. "There's been something wrong with me for a while."
"Years," she says. "But I'll fix it."

I love this. Clearly, Spike and First-Buffy are referring to two different "wrongnesses" inside him, at different ends of the spectrum. Great symmetry here.

Re: Concritathon feedback!

[girlguidejones.livejournal.com]

Some of the lines I liked

"It's almost calming, this level of incomprehensible noise, as none of it triggers any warning bells or memories he wants to avoid. He has, he reflects, killed very few people on lakebeds."

I liked this, and actually smiled when reading it. It also made me realize that it was the only smile I'd felt so far in the story. I don't know if it was your intent to have a uniformly dark story without humorous interjection, so I thought I'd mention it.

"Blades of grass stick up through the mud an inch from Spike's face. He realises that his knees have given out."

Again, nice imagery...unique way of showing a collapse to one's knees.

"Around one corner is the Chinese Slayer. She snarls, "I was the best night of your life!"

I like the twist in this. Usually when a woman makes this sort of declaration, she's been scorned and discarded by the man, and she's trying to remind him of what he'll never feel again. In this case, she's been completely erased by a man and is reminding him of what he'll never feel again. Interesting.

"When Spike was a boy, this place didn't count as a country. He remembers when Stanley found Livingstone on the shores of another lake. Of course, they had to name this one lake Victoria. Every bloody thing was named Victoria, except for the things that were named Albert. If he had the chance, he'd name everything Buffy. Buffybuffybuffybuffybuffybuffybuff."

I think this might be my favorite line of the story. Brava!

Overall summary

Very strong grammatically!

As I mentioned earlier, I felt this story slides smoothly into canon. I liked the end especially, finding out how it is that Spike initially encounters The First. Neat!

The overall tone and feel to the story was rather dry and reserved to me personally. Other than a couple of the incidents I mentioned above, it seemed like I was watching a sequence of events dispassionately, with no real stake in or emotional investment with a character for whom I would normally feel a great deal of...something.

There were a couple of parts I felt were "inserted" rather than natural progression of the story: Dawn/Spike call, car into the lake, German woman. Rather than feeling intrigued by these sections, I was distracted, trying to figure out "why" it was happening and/or what I was missing. I like mystery, foreshadowing, and hints...I don't like if I have to re-read a lot or spend time trying to figure out why I didn't "get" something. Again, this is only my perception. Other readers may enjoy these same segments!

I felt your [Spike's] remembrances of Angelus and Drusilla were especially strong and well-characterized, and enjoyed reading them.

There were several really strong visual images...Spike's initial struggle to walk out of the cave across the sand, the broad, cloven-hoofed elder, the two different rooms where Spike stays (and him smoking, wet and naked on the chair), the fight scene at the railroad tracks, the chicken-carrying woman on the bus...all wonderfully described and easily seen in the mind's eye.

There were a couple of instances where I truly felt connected with Spike and his story, and, fittingly, they were associated with the women he loved- how he felt about Drusilla, his stunned reaction to Dawn's comments, Angelus' stating that Buffy didn't love Spike, and Spike's wanting to name everything after Buffy. As a whole, however, I felt too distanced from what was happening to him to be emotionally connected to the tale. On the other hand, this more austere style of telling the tale is quite original compared to how we generally see Spike portrayed, and I think that others will probably find it very interesting.

I hope this is helpful in some small way. If you feel I have misinterpreted or misunderstood anything, or simply want to "rebut" to any of my comments, please feel free to do so. I am not very experienced in giving organized crit, so I can certainly improve. I am also not easily offended, so please let me know if you think I've gotten something completely wrong. Thanks for allowing me to read and critique your work- I enjoyed the experience!

Re: Concritathon feedback!

[indri]

The German woman -- I see what you mean. Noted.

You're quite right about my oversight regarding Spike's growing hunger. In an earlier draft he had eaten the pig, so I should have altered the text elsewhere when I changed this.

Spike driving the car into the water was an accident. Should be clearer.

Dawn found out about the AR after Villains but before Beneath You. Or at least, I presume that's why she threatens to set him alight should he touch Buffy (in BY). So I'm presuming here that Xander or someone has told her by the time she gets the call.

Thank you again for your comments. I'm sorry that my response here will come across as brief -- I'm running off in a minute to catch Serenity. I will use your comments to improve!

Re: Concritathon feedback!

[indri]

Thank you so much for taking the time to do this -- it's much appreciated.

A few responses:

jimmies/jemmies -- this seems to be a UK/US English thing. OED has both but "jimmies" is given as chiefly North American.

An antimacassar is a piece of cloth draped over the back of a sofa to protect it from a sitter's hair oil (macassar oil used to be popular). My grandmother had ones made of cream linen.

I would like to learn how to write prose that is more emotionally involving. I'd be very grateful if you would point me towards some fics (fanfic or commercial fiction) that you find have emotive impact. Some of this may be due to differences in taste, of course, but I'd be keen to compare different styles.

Re: Concritathon feedback!

[girlguidejones.livejournal.com]

Hey there...

Thanks for taking all the comments in stride. I certainly let out a breath I'd been holding, hoping I hadn't squished any toes.

Good to know the OED "jemmies"...and I'm glad to know I surmised correctly regarding the antimacassar! Hee!

Re: Emotional involvement...first, you have a tough challenge in this fic. There are generally two sources of emotion- from inside oneself, and from another person -or unknown circumstances- onto the protagonist. Since we already know Spike survives (and eventually gets an unorthodox sort of happily ever after), emotion caused by the reader's own uncertainties about the [hero's?] fate is nil. Therefore we need to get the emotion from Spike himself.

I think if you wanted to keep the gist of what you've got, you would need to expound on what Spike is feeling when he encounters the different versions of The First. His anger, grief, guilt, love, angst...oddly, I think you did the best job portraying a "typical" Spike with regard to Ford, arguably the incarnation he knew the least. Maybe if we could hear more Spike "language" in his own head. Spike always was a talker, including to himself.

"He wants to lock himself in the wardrobe and never come out.

He wants to mash himself to the window until the sun comes up.

He wants to bolt from the room and keep running, running, until they can't keep up with him any more.

He wants never to be have existed.

He wants to have been someone else.

Instead, he sits huddled in a corner, trying to think of something, anything that might calm him. Some happy memory, from before he did anything he now regrets.

He remembers now: his mother sang."

This is good at "saying" what he felt, but it doesn't "sound" like Spike. It's not done in what we would recognize as Spike's voice, and that shields us somewhat from connecting emotionally to the Spike we know and love. If you were able to make these sorts of passages sound as though Spike was talking, -even to himself- rather than sounding like a generic person was describing what Spike was thinking, I believe it would help a lot. And this suggestion is purely a gimmick, but you might also try a font change or using italics for the passages where Spike is thinking to himself, to further separate it from the rest of the story, which is really a narrative of what happened in Africa.

I'm going to put some thought to your request for high "emotional impact" fics. I want to try and think of one that is at least similar in plot/subject to your own. Most which come immediately to mind involve romantic pairings of one sort or another, and I don't think it's fair -or helpful- to try and compare your fic to that type. Apples and oranges, you know?

I'll get back to you asap on that.

smiLe